As my .signature attests, I'm also a ham radio operator. I'd like to be able
to use a 2 meter/440 MHz dual-band radio in the aircraft. While, ideally,
that radio would be an Icom IC-2820H, like the one in my car, practically
speaking it'll be a handheld. An external antenna would seem to be a useful
thing, with the cable brought forward to some convenient spot so I can hook
the radio up to it.

What are other hams doing in their aircraft?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

It all depends on

a) if it is your aircraft and you can hang things permanently where you
want

and

b) how technically inclined you are.

Jim
WX6RST

>
> What are other hams doing in their aircraft?

On 2008-01-09, RST Engineering > wrote:
> It all depends on a) if it is your aircraft and you can hang things
> permanently where you want

Yes. I'm going to be buying an LSA some time this year.

> and b) how technically inclined you are.

The ham radio part of this doesn't hold any mystery to me at all: I've been
a ham for 35 years, and do my own installation of stuff in cars and the
like. What I don't know is what's possible, good, or legal in an aircraft.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

"Jay Maynard" > wrote in message
...
> The ham radio part of this doesn't hold any mystery to me at all: I've been
> a ham for 35 years, and do my own installation of stuff in cars and the
> like. What I don't know is what's possible, good, or legal in an aircraft.

I don't believe that there are any laws against operating a ham radio in an
aircraft. Permanent installations are a whole 'nother kettle of fish, but that
is not what you seem to have in mind.

I have also been a ham for over 40 years. My feeling has always been that I
can do all of the hamming on the ground that I want, but my time aloft is too
precious (and potentially dangerous) to do anything else but aviate. I have
never had any interest in mixing ham radio and aviation but YMMV.

Vaughn WB4UHB

Jay Maynard wrote:
> As my .signature attests, I'm also a ham radio operator. I'd like to be able
> to use a 2 meter/440 MHz dual-band radio in the aircraft. While, ideally,
> that radio would be an Icom IC-2820H, like the one in my car, practically
> speaking it'll be a handheld. An external antenna would seem to be a useful
> thing, with the cable brought forward to some convenient spot so I can hook
> the radio up to it.
>
> What are other hams doing in their aircraft?

I'm going to be trying APRS in my plane,
but that's at least a couple months off.

I put a Icom 706MKIIG With SGC 239 Tuner in aircraft all the time...

"Jay Maynard" > wrote in message
...
> As my .signature attests, I'm also a ham radio operator. I'd like to be
> able
> to use a 2 meter/440 MHz dual-band radio in the aircraft. While, ideally,
> that radio would be an Icom IC-2820H, like the one in my car, practically
> speaking it'll be a handheld. An external antenna would seem to be a
> useful
> thing, with the cable brought forward to some convenient spot so I can
> hook
> the radio up to it.
>
> What are other hams doing in their aircraft?
> --
> Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
> http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
> http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
> Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

Some Photos of a Temp 172 Temp Antenna Install... Use Quality Wire When
Making an Antenna.

http://www.aircraftdelivery.net/me/HF1ANT.JPG
http://www.aircraftdelivery.net/me/HF2ANT.JPG
http://www.aircraftdelivery.net/me/HF3ANT.JPG
http://www.aircraftdelivery.net/me/HF4ANT.JPG




"Jay Maynard" > wrote in message
...
> As my .signature attests, I'm also a ham radio operator. I'd like to be
> able
> to use a 2 meter/440 MHz dual-band radio in the aircraft. While, ideally,
> that radio would be an Icom IC-2820H, like the one in my car, practically
> speaking it'll be a handheld. An external antenna would seem to be a
> useful
> thing, with the cable brought forward to some convenient spot so I can
> hook
> the radio up to it.
>
> What are other hams doing in their aircraft?
> --
> Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
> http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
> http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
> Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:02:32 -0800, Jim Stewart wrote:
> I'm going to be trying APRS in my plane, but that's at least a couple
> months off.

Funny you should mention that, as I'm building an APRS tracker for
airborne use right now. Hope to have it online in a couple weeks. Will
be totally self contained, and based on an old Kenwood KT-78A HT, a N1VG
OpenTracker, Garmin 18 GPS, Maldol AX75 1/2 wave 2M vertical and an AGM
battery. Should be fun to plot the data using Google Earth.

-Doug (N2WOL)

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, ATP/CFI

http://www.dvatp.com
--------------------

Jay Maynard > wrote:
> On 2008-01-09, RST Engineering > wrote:
> > It all depends on a) if it is your aircraft and you can hang things
> > permanently where you want

> Yes. I'm going to be buying an LSA some time this year.

> > and b) how technically inclined you are.

> The ham radio part of this doesn't hold any mystery to me at all: I've been
> a ham for 35 years, and do my own installation of stuff in cars and the
> like. What I don't know is what's possible, good, or legal in an aircraft.

First you have to get permission from the pilot/owner/operator; that part
should be easy....

Basically, anything permanently installed needs to be done, or at least
"supervised", and signed off by someone with the appropriate FAA holy
papers.

To keep it simple, don't permanently mount the radio and power it from
the cigarette lighter plug.

Install a second COM antenna, which will work good enoungh for 2M even
without filing off a little on the end when no one is looking, with a
cable run to a convenient place, which could also double as the antenna
for an air band hand held back up. This is the part that needs the FAA
paper.

Or, build the A/C yourself and do anything you want.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Years ago I helped put a Drake 2mtr rig in a friend's 172. He had another
stainless rod antenna in place and I trimmed it to 146 Mhz.

Big issue was the Drake lacked sidetone so it was hard to know how you
were sounding over the engine noise.
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

On Jan 9, 6:43*pm, Doug Vetter > wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:02:32 -0800, Jim Stewart wrote:
> > I'm going to be trying APRS in my plane, but that's at least a couple
> > months off.
>
Hook to a com antenna. Climb to about 5000 feet over IN. You can
kerchunk
about 2 dozen reapeaters on about any frequency you choose. Repeaters
therefore aren't too useful.

Regular 2 way fm communications works better.

Bill Hale K0QA




> Funny you should mention that, as I'm building an APRS tracker for
> airborne use right now. *Hope to have it online in a couple weeks. *Will
> be totally self contained, and based on an old Kenwood KT-78A HT, a N1VG
> OpenTracker, Garmin 18 GPS, *Maldol AX75 1/2 wave 2M vertical and an AGM
> battery. *Should be fun to plot the data using Google Earth.
>
> -Doug (N2WOL)
>
> --
> --------------------
> Doug Vetter, ATP/CFI
>
> --------------------

Jay Maynard wrote:
> On 2008-01-09, RST Engineering > wrote:
>> It all depends on a) if it is your aircraft and you can hang things
>> permanently where you want
>
> Yes. I'm going to be buying an LSA some time this year.
>
>> and b) how technically inclined you are.
>
> The ham radio part of this doesn't hold any mystery to me at all: I've been
> a ham for 35 years, and do my own installation of stuff in cars and the
> like. What I don't know is what's possible, good, or legal in an aircraft.

Legal is physically separate from the aircraft radios. A ham
installation isn't a major modification. Use normal accepted
aircraft practices.

On 2008-01-10, Ron Natalie > wrote:
> Legal is physically separate from the aircraft radios.

How separate? Just not in the radio stack, or not in the panel, or...? Can
it share aircraft power? (I have no intention of trying to share any
aircraft antennas; that's too much work for too little reward.)

> A ham installation isn't a major modification.

I know this is a Good Thing, but just what does it mean?

> Use normal accepted aircraft practices.

I'd planned to do that in any case; I may well simply have the manufacturer
include the antenna and cabling when the aircraft is built, so that I know
that it's all done to the same standard.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

There is an FAA Advisory Circular 20-98 "Auxiliary Two-Way Airborne Radio
System Installations" dated 5/23/77 that speaks directly to this issue.
Your local FSDO should have a copy and if not, I suppose I should get my act
together sometime in the next semester and scan it in to our website
www.rstengineering.com Just don't make me promise to do it by a particular
date.

In the blue-on-blue-182, the Kenwood TM-231 is mounted on the right side of
the instrument panel in the radio rack just above the Radio Shack AM-FM
cassette player and below the Garmin GPS patch panel and the XM radio patch
panel. All are powered from ships power through the avionics breaker and
are routed through the aircraft audio panel and use the headset and speaker
of the aircraft. It is necessary to do a little matching-magic to get the
aircraft microphone to mate with the Kenwood's microphone input, but is
certainly not rocket science to do so.

The antenna is a piece of 19" brazing rod soldered into a BNC connector out
in the plastic wingtip. A 3/8" hole in the outermost rib holds the mating
BNC connector and the rib along with the whole starboard wing is the ground
plane. The other wingtip holds the random wire used as the antenna for the
AM-FM radio. THe XM antenna (with magnets removed) is a small lump under
the glare shield blanket. THe GPS antenna is a hockey puck on the top of
the fuselage just aft of the windshield mounted in the hole that used to be
the hole for the ratty old paper-cone speaker hold-down screws. The speaker
is now a weatherproof trumpet mounted in the wing root just port of the
pilot's ear and behind the headliner.

The only problem that I have is that there is no sidetone with the Kenwood,
so in my next audio panel design the #3 radio will use the audio panel
intercom for sidetone.

Your biggest problem right now is to find a very friendly A&P/IA that
understands minor modifications and logbook entries instead of major
paperwork blizzards.

Jim
A&P/IA
WX6RST
1958 C-182 N 73 CQ

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford



>
> The ham radio part of this doesn't hold any mystery to me at all: I've
> been
> a ham for 35 years, and do my own installation of stuff in cars and the
> like. What I don't know is what's possible, good, or legal in an aircraft.
> --
> Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
> http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
> http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
> Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

BTW, Dave Martin K6KOW and the former editor of Kitplanes Magazine and I did
the "Aircraft Mobile" chapter of the ARRL publication on mobile operation.
You may want to get ahold of a copy of that ARRL book.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> There is an FAA Advisory Circular 20-98

On 2008-01-10, RST Engineering > wrote:
> BTW, Dave Martin K6KOW and the former editor of Kitplanes Magazine and I did
> the "Aircraft Mobile" chapter of the ARRL publication on mobile operation.
> You may want to get ahold of a copy of that ARRL book.

Thanks for the tip; I just ordered a copy.

I think I can get AC 20-98 online from the FAA, as well, but their server
appears to be having problems.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

Doug Vetter wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:02:32 -0800, Jim Stewart wrote:
>> I'm going to be trying APRS in my plane, but that's at least a couple
>> months off.
>
> Funny you should mention that, as I'm building an APRS tracker for
> airborne use right now. Hope to have it online in a couple weeks. Will
> be totally self contained, and based on an old Kenwood KT-78A HT, a N1VG
> OpenTracker, Garmin 18 GPS, Maldol AX75 1/2 wave 2M vertical and an AGM
> battery. Should be fun to plot the data using Google Earth.

Please give us an update when it's working.

AC 20-98 has been canceled by the FAA, but AC 20-67B is pertinent. Here ya
go:

--------------
AC 20-67B - AIRBORNE VHF COMMUNICATIONS EQUIPMENT INSTALLATIONS

Department of Transportation
Federal Aviation Administration

1/16/86

Initiated by: AWS-120

1. PURPOSE. This advisory circular (AC) sets forth one means, but not the
only means, of demonstrating compliance with the airworthiness rules
governing the functioning of airborne VHF communications equipment.

2. CANCELLATION. AC 20-67A, Airborne VHF communication System Installations,
dated October 17, 1972, is canceled.

3. RELATED FEDERAL AVIATION REGULATION (FAR) SECTIONS. FAR Sections .1301 of
FAR Parts 23, 25, 27, and 29 {23.1301, 25.1301, 27.1301, 29.1301};
25.1307(d), 29.1307(e); and .1309 of FAR Parts 25 and 29 {25.1309 and
29.1309}.

4. BACKGROUND. Airborne VHF communications systems and equipment have become
more complex over the last several years, using digital data applications
and computerized equipment and control. There has also been an increase in
the use of select calling and digital data link applications, in addition to
mandatory air traffic control air to ground voice communication. To meet
these developments, the Radio Technical Commission for Aeronautics (RTCA)
SC-148 committee has presented recommendations to cover performance and
compatibility for the wider variety of VHF communications equipment being
installed. Existing technical standard order design standards for VHF
communications equipment and for substitute equipment (PC 20-41A, Substitute
Technical Standard Order Aircraft Equipment) are still applicable for
specific systems and should be referred to for guidance.

5. ACCEPTABLE MEANS OF COMPLIANCE. An acceptable means of compliance with
the regulations referenced in paragraph 3, as they apply to the functioning
of airborne VHF communications equipment provided for use under IFR
conditions, is to satisfy the criteria set forth in Section 3 of RTCA
Document DO-186, "Minimum Operational Performance Standards for Airborne
Radio Communications Equipment Operating Within the Radio Frequency Range
117.975 to 137.000 MHz," dated January 20, 1984. This document may be
examined at any Federal Aviation Administration regional office or purchased
from: RTCA Secretariat, One McPherson Square, 1425 K Street, NW., Suite 500,
Washington, DC 20005.

/s/
William J. Sullivan
Acting Deputy Director of Airworthiness
--------------------

Not much to it, is there.

Jon

"Jay Maynard" > wrote in message
...
> On 2008-01-10, RST Engineering > wrote:
>> BTW, Dave Martin K6KOW and the former editor of Kitplanes Magazine and I
>> did
>> the "Aircraft Mobile" chapter of the ARRL publication on mobile
>> operation.
>> You may want to get ahold of a copy of that ARRL book.
>
> Thanks for the tip; I just ordered a copy.
>
> I think I can get AC 20-98 online from the FAA, as well, but their server
> appears to be having problems.
> --
> Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
> http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
> http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
> Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

I miswrote. I don't know for certain that AC 20-98 has been canceled, but I
think it has. I just don't have it. If anyone finds a copy, please let me
know.

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford


"Jon Woellhaf" > wrote in message
. ..

> AC 20-98 has been canceled by the FAA,

20-98 has not been cancelled, but it is not available in the current
downloadable list or anywhere else. For an AC to be CANCELLED, it has to be
done specifically. THere is a great difference between being obsolete and
being cancelled. And, until the FAA cancels it or comes out with an updated
edition, it is "the last available information" on the subject.

> but AC 20-67B is pertinent.

I do not believe that it is pertinent. All of the references and
documentation point to AIRCRAFT VHF COM, and not VHF Com in general. I do
not believe that it covers amateur or other types of communications
equipment.

Jim

I've got the damned thing, but it is just getting the time to scan it,
change the index page, and put it up.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford

"Jon Woellhaf" > wrote in message
. ..
>I miswrote. I don't know for certain that AC 20-98 has been canceled, but I
>think it has. I just don't have it. If anyone finds a copy, please let me
>know.
>
>

If you will send it to me I will be happy to scan it and post it.

Jon

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> I've got the damned thing, but it is just getting the time to scan it,
> change the index page, and put it up.
>
> Jim
>
> --
> "If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
> --Henry Ford
>
> "Jon Woellhaf" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>I miswrote. I don't know for certain that AC 20-98 has been canceled, but
>>I think it has. I just don't have it. If anyone finds a copy, please let
>>me know.
>>
>>
>
>

Yeah, like copying it, putting it in an envelope, running it down to the
post office is going to save me time.

I've offered to do put ALL my articles up if somebody will take the time to
take the raw files, make the graphics files, the index page, and post them.
As yet, no takers.

I'm not going to do it piecemeal.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford

"Jon Woellhaf" > wrote in message
. ..
> If you will send it to me I will be happy to scan it and post it.
>
> Jon
>
> "RST Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I've got the damned thing, but it is just getting the time to scan it,
>> change the index page, and put it up.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> --
>> "If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
>> --Henry Ford
>>
>> "Jon Woellhaf" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>I miswrote. I don't know for certain that AC 20-98 has been canceled, but
>>>I think it has. I just don't have it. If anyone finds a copy, please let
>>>me know.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

OK. Sorry to be such a bother, Jim.

Does anyone ELSE have a copy of AC 20-98 they will send me? How about if I
send you a self addressed stamped envelope?

Jon

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> Yeah, like copying it, putting it in an envelope, running it down to the
> post office is going to save me time.
>
> I've offered to do put ALL my articles up if somebody will take the time
> to take the raw files, make the graphics files, the index page, and post
> them. As yet, no takers.
>
> I'm not going to do it piecemeal.
>
> Jim
>
> --
> "If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
> --Henry Ford
>
> "Jon Woellhaf" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> If you will send it to me I will be happy to scan it and post it.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> "RST Engineering" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I've got the damned thing, but it is just getting the time to scan it,
>>> change the index page, and put it up.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> --
>>> "If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
>>> --Henry Ford
>>>
>>> "Jon Woellhaf" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>>I miswrote. I don't know for certain that AC 20-98 has been canceled,
>>>>but I think it has. I just don't have it. If anyone finds a copy, please
>>>>let me know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:48:44 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
> wrote:

>
>Years ago I helped put a Drake 2mtr rig in a friend's 172. He had another
>stainless rod antenna in place and I trimmed it to 146 Mhz.
>
>Big issue was the Drake lacked sidetone so it was hard to know how you
>were sounding over the engine noise.


You and Jim both want side tone. I'm quite happy without it. <:-))
Actually I don't even want it except for CW. A couple of quick
reports to start and unless something goes wrong it should be fine.
The only side tone I ever use in both stations (shop and Den) Legal
limit 1.8 through 440), both cars (144/440 @ 50 watts) an the Deb
(144/440 @ 5W) is for CW operation. I just hang the HT on the door
strap under the window and let the rubber duck stick up into the
window. I wear a tiny ear bud and throat mike with a PTT on my shirt
pocket. From 5,000 I get reliable 50 to 75 miles with 5 watts and the
rubber duck ant.

Stations and antennas are shown on my home page.

Roger (K8RI)
WWW.rogerhalstead.com

Jon Woellhaf wrote:
> OK. Sorry to be such a bother, Jim.
>
> Does anyone ELSE have a copy of AC 20-98 they will send me? How about if I
> send you a self addressed stamped envelope?

Did you try calling your FDSO and asking them
to send you a copy? That's kinda their job.